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 Post subject: Re: CAA Consultation on Registration Charges
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:48 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:30 pm
Posts: 728
Location: Isle of Wight
Brian,

Your post is very confusing - it appears to be the BMFA news from July last year.

Since then we have had more changes to the Air Navigation Order, a revised Permission from the CAA, and above all the latest stuff regarding registration and on line tests.

The major source of contention now is that the nice polite negotiating noises of the past between the CAA and the BMFA (and other associations) are now are being walked all over by a new CAA department claiming that their policy is dictated by directives from the Department for Transport.

We have known for a long time that registration and on line testing were coming. That is a done thing already in place in the law, similar to that already in place in many other countries.

The big issue at the moment is that the proposed cost in the UK is a whole level greater than anywhere else in the world.


 
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 Post subject: Re: CAA Consultation on Registration Charges
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:25 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:32 pm
Posts: 848
Paul Newell wrote:

Brian,

Your post is very confusing - it appears to be the BMFA news from July last year.

Since then we have had more changes to the Air Navigation Order, a revised Permission from the CAA, and above all the latest stuff regarding registration and on line tests.

The major source of contention now is that the nice polite negotiating noises of the past between the CAA and the BMFA (and other associations) are now are being walked all over by a new CAA department claiming that their policy is dictated by directives from the Department for Transport.

We have known for a long time that registration and on line testing were coming. That is a done thing already in place in the law, similar to that already in place in many other countries.

The big issue at the moment is that the proposed cost in the UK is a whole level greater than anywhere else in the world.


Yes, I was not aware that it was old news, as it came to me via another source .
On your final sentence, this sums it up pretty well:-

A government database intended to store the personal details of around 150,000 drone fliers is set to cost around £4m plus to buy and £2.8m to maintain – despite a similar database costing Defra just £300k a year.

The Civil Aviation Authority's (CAA) planned database of drone fliers is to comply with new EU laws and will also make it mandatory for anyone flying a drone weighing more than 250g to register with the state.

Industry talk about the cost of the database is growing: sources familiar with the matter tell us the CAA has decided to outsource the database to the Department for Transport (DfT), which owns the CAA. We are also told that DfT estimates for procuring the database, which government staffers think will cater for around 175,000 users, come in at £4.1m upfront with a further £2.8m in annual running costs.

Putting aside the idiocy of regulating children's toys with the criminal law, drone fliers and makers alike are nervous that the database will simply be used by British bureaucrats as a profit-making exercise at their expense.

As Brendan Schulman of Chinese drone manufacturer DJI tweeted, if whatever price charged for the system is simply passed on direct to drone enthusiasts along with a profit margin for the civil service, the registration scheme will fail.

A departmental spokeswoman referred us to a recent CAA consultation about the database, and quoted a paragraph from that document stating:

"Under the 'user pays' principle, and as a statutory corporation, the CAA must recover the costs from those it regulates. In putting forward this proposal, the CAA is seeking to balance the interests of users to keep charges as low as possible, whilst ensuring that the charges cover the costs of running the scheme."

The DfT did not dispute the price or cost estimates put to it by The Register. The CAA consultation reckons that if 175,000 people freely volunteer to be put on a government database, the price per head will be £16.50 per year – an optimistic hope.

Yet not so long ago, another government department managed to run a similar database while costing an order of magnitude less. Back in the 2000s the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) ran a database of 50,000 game shooters, who at the time had to register with the Post Office for a licence to shoot certain bird species. Like the CAA today has outsourced to the DfT, so the Post Office outsourced its database to Defra.

That database cost just £300,000 annually to run, as a recent Freedom of Information request revealed (PDF). Although it was scrapped in 2007, applying inflation to that £300k from 2007 brings it up to around £488,000 today.

Where does the order of magnitude increase in the cost to run a straightforward database of names, contact details and "bought licence y/n" tickboxes come from? DfT wouldn't say, though one potential answer lies in the entirely fictional figures for the size of the UK drone market being bandied around by consultants. Perhaps government workers thought there was a much bigger market for them to impose new taxes on


 
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 Post subject: Re: CAA Consultation on Registration Charges
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:46 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:17 pm
Posts: 1305
Location: Northamptonshire
And now we have - just published CAP 1789
It’s not until next year, but it may be worth a read now…
https://greyarro.ws/uploads/short-url/bxPuYOogzOKTkEKdkQGQZSrH2xa.pdf


 
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 Post subject: Re: CAA Consultation on Registration Charges
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:56 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:35 pm
Posts: 187
Location: Stourbridge
Thanks for that Martin, can you send me over some Anadin please, I have had a go at reading it. I now know less then before and my head hurts. What's going to happen when we leave the EU!!!!! All this legislation is going to do is put newcomers off, it's a hobby and fun. Wait and see time. Sad times ahead I feel.Mick


 
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 Post subject: Re: CAA Consultation on Registration Charges
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:47 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:32 pm
Posts: 848
For those who may not have seen what Mr Sage from NATS, states of those who fly UAV's

https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/f ... zILB3Mj5II

They have issued an apology now!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
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 Post subject: Re: CAA Consultation on Registration Charges
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:32 pm
Posts: 848
BBC 2 9.30 tonight 1st July, "Britain's next Air Disaster? Drones"


 
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 Post subject: Re: CAA Consultation on Registration Charges
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:08 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:32 pm
Posts: 848
https://youtu.be/pyd6CK4MU20

BMFA re Dave Phipps will be in front of Parliament Committee on Tuesday 9th July in the morning.


 
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